Scottish Football: Sportsound 12 Dec 16

Scottish Football: Sportsound 12 Dec 16

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Scottish Football: Sportsound 12 Dec 16
We were joined by Billy Brown, Scott McDonald and Richard Wilson as we looked back on some big refereeing decisions from Rangers v Hearts, as well as discussing Ian Cathro.

the Scottish football podcast from BBC radio scotland this is an audio download of a Scottish football from BBC Scotland and Kenny McIntyre for terms and conditions of use please go to our website BBC doc or docx UK / sportscotland today's podcast is taken from BBC radio scotland sports own program of monday the twelfth of December I was joined by Richard Wilson Billy brown and Scott McDonald as we looked ahead to choose these Premiership action at celtic park and pattaya will look back on Saturday's big game at I Brooks with a spotlight was definitely on the new hearts head coach Ian Cathal Billy brown has some very strong opinions on that appointment there was also a bit of a debate on the decisions made by referee John beaten a couple of big calls from him during that game let's start with the big one the decision by referee John beaten not to award heart what would have been the opening goal if you want to look the footage is on our twitter account at BBC Sport sound and on the BBC Sport Scott Facebook page will be joined by a former referee and a few minutes time but our pundits have had a look let's get their thoughts Richard describe what happened and did the match officials call it correctly well Kenny as as Rob explained Denise are described in his commentary their wares for during saves a shot the ball comes back out is played back to I think it's Carolyn Patterson now in that phase of play Don curry has come off the field he's got into the gore mouth and then he's come back on before the ball is played to curry before the balls crossed him he's back on the field and he's about a meter from the goal line I know there's been some contention about this on social media and people have been quoting various different rules i think rule 11 is the one that has been getting past the roundabout a player leaving the field of play but my understanding of that situation is when co was off the field he is treated as being on the goal line if any player is off the field and considered to be interfering with play he's considered to be on the goal line so if a defender had gone off the pitch at that point he would be considered to be on the goal line and therefore playing people on side Co he's going off the pitch considered to be on the gall lane at that point however he's come back on and he's come back on before the ball is played to him that's the key point if the ball had been played towards him while he was still off the pitch and he'd come on and got it he would have been in an offside position because he would be considered to be on the goal line at that point regardless of where he caught the ball but he'd come back on the pitch before it was played to therefore it's a different phase of play therefore the fact that he'd gone off the pitch and come back on is no longer relevant it's where he is when the ball is played to him so having taken that part of it when the ball is played to him the television footage is not level but it would appear that curry is roughly a meter from the lane it would appear that West for the rooms pretty much on his Lane and we Wallace would look to be certainly in a position to be roughly level with curry so therefore the rate decision probably would have been to allow the goal to stand because at that point Co he was actually on Sade when he got the ball I know there has been this discussion on social media boat what happens when a player goes off and comes back on together better time looking at this today that's my understanding of the rules the interesting but i think is it would appear i think from the footage the linesman of the assistant referee has begun to go towards the halfway line is always giving it in any stopped so i'm not sure whether it was their effort either maybe question don't or maybe asked him what he thought not quite sure what's happened at that point but however my understanding of the situation is that it's because he's come back on and the balls played to him that negates the fact that gone off the field and come back onto therefore it's just a straight decision was he level whether it was the range of defender with for doing on the lane or was he not billions caught you both had a look did the officials get it correct on Saturday no they don't get correct I think you've got to say that the goal should have stood I must say it was very very difficult situation you know to see it both from the referee and the linesman's a point of view but he dead loot like he was on side when he when he scored the goal when the ball was played him it was definitely on said Lee Wallace was playing a mine so you know the goal should have stood no I'm going to say that that I've been there a lot of times and that's happened you know and there what you what one of the things i would have seen at the time it with a student the other end no I'm glad you said that you get way too believer honest well well I dead there are the use of that verti know they go wrong I can understand why they're going wrong it was a difficult thing I think I think that's an interesting point because it's such a complicated situation a lot of bodies in the way in the box and in the way of maybe the line of sight and all these other things if there is an element of dope I suppose you have to go over the elaman you've got to be sure before you give a decision yeah what's happened with giving the attacking team the advantage said a striker last night and the ferry offside you know it needs to be clear daylight da da da but for me it's a goal we can all see it now it's easily you know it's easy to say it once The Situation's past but I think John Beaton's you know you can have to stop asking his light he's linesman's for for their opinions because they're not getting it right that's the second time in in a few weeks he's had that you know decision incorrect and well I'll bring up you know my sort of situation a couple of weeks ago at Bundy away the goal that never was obviously our managers now had a suspension for it but John was in charge that day and his lines been let him down that day also and I think he's lying sons let them down here again over the weekend lots of people getting in touch up a lot of people that an opinion on this will get you the texts and tweets shortly were joined in the lane know by former every Charlie Richmond good evening to you Charlie you had a look at the footage should the goal have been awarded yes yes I go as a goal every day the week Richard totally I can add anything more to then listening to what Richards explanation about it wasn't totally summed up and also and just taking on to what Scott said the benefit of the doubt goes to the attacking team so therefore it's our goal the only thing I haven't looked at the clap and looking on is that John goes across to Stewart another conversation as join trying to swear that the assistant to say look I think it's a goal or has Stewart swiggum to say no he's off-site but when you look at the exact same shirt is in a soft say that's off saved it so stayed so many joins in and maybe joins an opinion is not all safe and it goes back the ultimate decision is the referee I would have been oblivious referee to overrule is the assassin and get the correct decision what about Don Cowie leaving the field of play what did the rules see or not momentum players momentum Dorn has went across the goalkeeper a belly old abellio back me up on her person here in coaching point day across the defender derrick rose and went to the girl in his anticipating a tarpon and his momentum took him off the field of play is no delayed is no done anything else just doesn't spend and bite round but as Richard says when the ball is played he is still a nun on say possession as no is actually has been an off state possessions came to get the ball and played it for their right lots of people getting in touch Richard Cole and Marshall having a go at you Richard you have made that up Wallace was a few inches from the goal line when the ball played not a meter yeah are you can see it here is I mean we've got it in freeze frame right here he's probably half a meter away from from the line but we can't tell from the most difficult can tell that angle where cowie is though no ma'am you know maybe somebody to use the goal line as your gate yeah them and it certainly looks as though Korea's further out than the Wallace's at that point Melissa meter away more than a couple I think we're the linesman probably gets spooked is how quickly Wallace gets out to close the ball and then once cow he does then put the ball in it he looks like he's in an offside position but when the ball is actually kicked from Patterson is clearly in lime well i would say probably more than in line with wallace in the pictures yeah i must support the referee here you know because we're certain discussing it and looking at and there are certainly but the linesman today they'll get them ones right and wrong that's what they're there for you know they're not there to to not be there to not make decisions they need to make the decisions and they need to make the crime there's been a lot this year and I'm not gonna I'm not going to slate them because it's a very difficult job and Charlie you know as well as I do I've gave you a hard time over the years but no Charlie no I was never worried about you than he actually worried about bellies well yeah my shoulder again oh that's good Charlie oh my lord but you know they're there to get these decisions right and you know the more they get them wrong the more pressure that's going to be heaped on them and once again it's a decision is it's interesting no but it's one of those ones where we've gone over this this discussion of how many times were the referee speak after a game or whatever but this is one of those situations where maybe if there was a claret clarification about the rule and what what the situation was okey then becomes a judgment call for the assistant referee in the referee whether the players off say they're not but there was clarification about the rule then that might have stopped the being all this discussion you really after modification guys the clarification comes on if there's any domain you gave it to the attacking team it has any day if your shin to yourself is he on say that off say that for then it does and you get the you get the advantage to the attacking team because it's nice to see you saw where the game many many many many years ago yeah well obviously I'm delighted to hear that from obviously an ex referee now but in terms of when you're out in the middle it's easier to say that then then actually make that decision at that moment in time now you'll tell me differently but when there's big balls big calls like that and you're not one hundred percent sure and what with what Billy touched on possibly being away team natural human nature is to not be sure is to not give it rather than give it one of the best advice I got Scott was even though you're a referee in the middle make your mind up about the decision yourself with a gap and your own mind yeah so Steven not vulgar then mm-hmm am I looking for the north state flag and a man nor am I looking for an offside flag but am I not looking for the flag and see what Jonah he joins approximately what the pain Kenya is looking across the sea in a good position he's not good possession yet he's got a good possession and he's looking he's obviously looking at her heart playing a planar ball across been his way that vision he's got like I'm in a bogus across he's thinking to himself I should see a flag here on or I shouldn't see a flag here you should be making a conscious decision itself as can you imagine him banana again yourself and not answered and happened that's that's that is a better face always good it's it's funny you say that because when i'll bring up the incident again in our game a few weeks ago with Johnny yeah because you see that was a goal no Olivia you saw it well and what's a good an in terms of well to fuel with Elaine well in terms of what was said to me I don't like going out on the liminal same what referees when what referee sort of tell you at the time but he said to me it looked a goal for me but lines onshore so what if it looks a goal for you then surely you've got to make that decision then he gone yeah that's one and that sort of it upset me not upset the manager because that was a statement that was given a half but I wasn't giving out isn't the assistant referee in a better position to judge an offside more often than not I don't know is I didn't give the updated everything anything that happens if it isn't lame with them is more I don't know decision rather than an actual decision from the from the show there's a couple i want to put you Joseph Henry's on Twitter I watched that much in TV refereeing was scandalous lots of other people getting a touch join an Inverness we need video evidence how many bad decisions are made every week let's stop sleeting the rest and get it sorted and another one here from Bruce you've been discussing this for 10 minutes that area 10 seconds are you saying that every is pure or biased or corrupt mistakes in the workplace are made every day Rangers have done well they're covering from the hearts 2 feet 10 days ago beating hearts now but in six points of nine is fine that's a fair assessment me that I think that's a fair assessment but I would I want to ask I want I want to get this summer therefore these Scott about balancing up the books if you like be in one game or be over the course of a season there's our I want to talk about the the decision to boot Jamie Walker for diving charlie don't be a victim for diving what I want at this point clearly to you one of the listeners column Arsenal and twitter is asking was the Walker booking retribution from beaten for being conned by Walker on matchday 1 what was your answer to that it looks that way it looked that way the way he gave that decision he pondered his thought he looked and then he went together because it's the wrong decision and see sometimes she some things as a referee as you can I use the word looking for a player looking for the incident you actually go the other way but that's join isn'ta yes yes John have you have you son has went about it the wrong way have you done a spitter I remember the guy Donovan with Dundee Anita had went down in a box for a penalty I never gave the penalty looking back and he went to the media and selected me up solar oil left me with a name and the next game I ran by him and said come to my dressing room and have a go at me by all means but don't take the cheap shot in the media the John be a new just think he dive yeah matt sassari kak every day to eat ballet if you follow this it was little it was a wrong decision but did he just not think he dive no min he you know he's a human is made it quicker if it i thought i did i did amid the decision quicker I mean fought following your logic fall on your logic through Charlie what you're effectively saying is John beaten knew that was a foe but then booked a player for diving you really think that would have been the thought process for him up I would see the concept they really think it was a fool but regards tonight every day if it if you look at it as esta su oh no I'm going the other way no little bit go the other way the other side of that is that Jamie walk is going to have to put up with that whether it's john beating that's referee or other referees why but because of the incident that the started is Elsa I'm not saying he deserves it he's gonna have to understand and you know it's unfortunate that happened on the weekend for him because we all seen it now and yeah it's not yellow card but there's been other incidents at times where he hasn't got the foul in game that probably we haven't seen because of that incident with in the first game of the season because as a reputation now that precedes himself because it was blatantly not foul that one because he died when the ball was when there was clearly no contact me it looked really bad and he did he did mug the referee on the day it is you know what would jimmie and he isn't isn't a diver it doesn't usually do that baba wash gander we are silly what do we do he died here no do a bit the contact and never came a possibility at that probably but i don't think that's Annie's makeup to do that i don't think it as a religion in fact of the damage anticipating a contact that came it was a fool he goes over there not a natural yes sir that effort he is ghosty to judge that John being just going wrong then he just got it wrong I think I think that Raymond we should say that hearts I mean a player being booked for simulation is one of the apps even the only yellow card that you can appeal in it you should say that heart hearts the intention is for hearts to appeal they will submit an appeal auntie Amy Walker's behalf for that one as well Partick Thistle for ideas year in the game on Friday night so I think that's an indication of its a difficult judgment call I think for a match official diving seems to be the most difficult one I think to call whether it's deliberate whether there's been a foul or not mean we're talking here and we're absolutely all clear that Jimmy Walker was fold it shouldn't have been a booking and same incident for party this one on Friday night but it's clearly a difficult one for referees to judge i think whether a player is diet or norton i don't know if there's an answer to that I don't know if those i think i might I think what I married my judgment on was a service contact then you're in the gray area but regards to that and that there was no contact then you will make it for their as better sometimes it's better sometimes the air in the side of all right okay the rest contact there but maybe a house but when this concept of there's no clear contact with regards to their then yes safer is that right what two years you're safe up to one realize John had just played on inside of me then we probably just his offerings a fellow and that was that but to go from one extreme to the other from Gavin north go there caution for for simulations rusi fan I'm coming from from the referee in point of view yeah I mean I think you know there was too difficult decisions I don't think there's any doubt about that and unfortunately they called them both wrong unfortunately things yeah some things ringing up between are performing well and you're doing well and domestically in a dual rail in Europe their nose in it and does an anticipation that you've got to get those decisions right but the thing is for me where the lines minis now it's more the linesman for me than John in this case with the offside the line James directly is directly across and he can probably see that Lee Wallace is probably in his vision and also than cowie so so why has joined beaten went across to have a conversation like well that well that that's the interesting one that is an interesting question because if there is no flag raised then why has he gone over to have that conversation if the linesman hasn't raised his flag then by all means then it should be a goal and it should be just yeah make the Bootmaker buda hill china what there's one thing to Michael Booth and Twitter football really needs a referee makes late to have and rugby so we can hear what the reasoning is clearing up the session I know you don't no no no no no no yeah two guys in the studio there is a vp & noble wobble hello Chuck choice for an interesting point gentlemen I don't know if you're aware but and the water club championships in I think I'm China at the moment they are trialing a retrospective television for referees there is one assistant video assistant referee who has got a monitor touch side and they are looking at game changing decisions penalty yes or no gold yes and no offside yes or no so been testing to see what the feedback we get from FIFA on that and then we can maybe gradually bring a hand rugby rugby is great because the gentleman no don't get the Standish get a fuse really what's coming in because of the professional sale yet but if you put makes enter the television live did it to the audience and it might work in the favor of hearing the industrial language but then we may be sure will you know caution and hand while you know sending him off and and not coincide with a ganster there so i think it was out and they are bring about you trying to go to another edition certainly the rest of these former of the father you know decisions being made at the side of the park you use a referee would you just want to remedy that can help anything that can help get the right decision must be embraced with open arms if it works then fine as such tried and it doesn't work then at least you've tried the angular fa have been telling aligns with a goal-line technology and as a present moment in time we saw yesterday that at what so we haven't got the money in Scotland that's the problem you don't have the money to keep bringing certain things at the English f ed but if it was for you and she couldn't the video technology we run 30 seconds there's a decision keep playing hi all the video referee has a look at that and then go back and get the decision I've always been in the opinion Charlie the only video evidence you should use as the ones are using in England I think to use everything else I mean it the game is going to stop isn't it is it's good usage on about penalties yes done and yeah but you're talking about penalties yes or no or said yes and no an effectively goal of nowhere near for killing booski little too in the ticket quinacridone so so if you could to bring your anguish with small decisions yeah a small decision when you're talking about I think when you're talking offside you're talking offsides within a school wrinkle yeah exactly i'm not talking like near enough the halfway line 0 and all your flag we're talking about when there's access lancer angel is a perfect example yeah it's a perfect example does but as our goal been scored wrongly so bring it back and look at and review it with the dissipated here right let's have this a few people's it should tan and Twitter John beaten saw it it was Jimmy Walker and saw the chance to the chance to become and you think that is what happened after so that's any names yet right I can hit it for that point right tom says is not the main story from the game at I looks how well Ranger have done despite being written off two weeks ago to discuss the game and also um putas that's fair enough we're going to get to that guys we're going to get back though but this this could change the game it's a nil nil at this point let's not forget that you know and goals change games and then if hearts go one lee a large then it's a different type of game now fair play rules were more than well worth the win on the weekend but this you know if it was at the other end what would we be saying then as well yeah a lot Scott let's look at your point of view as only having me at F addy yeah you go don't want nothing and you sell here we go again yeah well that's what I'm the Dundee the other week the referee as a referee the whole thing to don't want no the clouds start to go in the back right hold on an electron looks kind Neely on this end there's a yin and Leith and Billy suggest that I drove it was just tongue-in-cheek not Billy can explain himself in and leaf imma hips fun but Billy brown is only seeing every fan in the country is known for time immemorial you don't get decisions in Glasgow hearts were robbed the only people have pussyfoot around the fact other powers that be and the media end offices Ian in Leith so Billy do genuinely believe when you take our hearts team at kilmarnock team to either to sail to park you're not going to get the decisions you should get yeah I think referees are human beings if you go through Rangers go through and the brought down and the penalty box and the referee doesn't give it the next time the go down the clothes and that much uproar that is very very difficult for referees is difficult to referee these games at Parkhead and eyebrows now I'm not saying the referees a bent or crooked but I'm just thinking that human beings and it's a natural reaction sometimes and I think I don't think I'm wrong there a few asking basic seem at Tynecastle then if you're playing said partick thistle with hearts for the decisions we know what that stadiums lake probably yeah probably so it's also worth remembering that it says it's part of human nature park football fans will always remember the decisions that go against them particular that I believe that should have gone against them rather than any that going for them and I think that is that is that perspective as well but when Quinn and maybe know so much hearts I'm not be doing that that's just disrespect here to some of the teams but when you go to the i vs celtic part you are set not to defend the majority of the play will be in the box and it will be decision after decision after decision and will come a time when the referee is not apparently has no apparently that's a penalty or the top penalty may have been the list of the three penalties etc etc but a gas can i that's the clothes & flinch at the session i wouldn't go as far to say that any instances Charlie where the tables have been toned and a player has got his own Bart when you pour agenda I would love it lovely a daddy Mason at Dunfermline I would love Steve if you have lessening the net got it hahaha Arkham Adam Adam salmon I think the family way that the notes are 13 weeks was my ankle ligament damage and I come back and I was I was running the ball hit transferred to one side in a part to the other and I was a 1.1 cost up to in a caravan don't see one end to the other and I'm sure daddy just click my heels I'm sure deliberately I think I think he's only going to cross in front me to extend out just a very short that's big fella and it's like man you and I turned up a couple of solar cells done back up and because i had been it sort of except english i just tongues in and I says fact that you did and you play patna again and you know that way that I smile comes onto your face as skc we really do not i would love stiffen the i would love to finger every I say that in city that except they're still did any managerial team put more pressure on you than belly brown and ginger they must have been oh no no James James Balog that's way and I said that the gunman is sure to hear belly voiceover the air again that was the only assistant manager in Scotland probably the water that man marks the fourth official I remember telling counsel with children nerves or ha I just as his good and he's right there beside him but there was one thing with rebellion and and Jamie as a ten castle and something that happened and like Jessie's just runs it on in a park whose horns up Mia screaming and shouting and screaming and shown and I system Isis Isis camaster Park camasta park mr. Andre new soon hey Isis because with a steel get in a senior training shoes see there for you training shoes you'll get a mordafey come off and he just totally killed the scenario Joe was uncontrollable really I used to get tarred with the same brush each other I think we'll leave it there Charlie thanks very much indeed for joining us in sports and it's formatively chawla lecture and lots of people get in touch keep them coming Texas 80 to 95 on twitter at BBC Sport sound or tweet me at BBC Kenema the match was of course belly in cath Rose first match in charge of hearts we've been sitting the studio it's hard to remember an appointment in Scala triple that's generated so much debate well I think it generally dilaudid be because it was nothing else something last week really because I didn't think it was such a major major thing you know really here I've got a question to ask about this welcome to the hearts dynasty when klieg Levine got the job at hearts he sees that the wouldn't be speculation when Robbie Nielsen went or got psyched or whatever because there was a coaching plan and police that the next person down the lane would move up two and a half years and last week we had the week before la y know the speculation he was going to get the job I think I don't want hunter the Dennis thing I think the succession plans resulted when Jack Ross think I think the jack ross was brought in to take the development team too crunchy overlap I judge like then and Jack left a John Daly's know in that position but there's obviously been the judgment call that maybe not ready for that step up so the succession plan has altered i dunno they think very highly of him for the unprovoked attack a beneath again I think there's a man hearts to think very highly of him hey so it might be that he's part of succession planning for the future but I think Robbie's The Taming of Robbie's departure and the taming of Jack Rossi's departure when he left the club is what altered that succession point you know why didn't they train persuades Robert you stay then Robbie's mind was made up the gun try his hand in England was it so you don't ask him to stay at all I don't know if he did asking sis do not buy think things I think I think they understood very quickly that Robbie was Robbie's main force it and moving yeah yeah i mean that that was partly the master plan in the first place you know that that he would be theirs dynasty setup but you're going to have a dag aren't you the way end of you know you're going to have a dagger that the carnage email say that the speculation wouldn't have happened if the plan had been followed through that's what I'm saying you know I'm not against teen Catherine Catherine love of died but the results he gets is good Craig live in there I mean let's be perfectly honest about it tomorrow you should have got that job but Tommy rate was never going to come to the hearts or be asked to come the hearts under the present regime there that's that regime not what bears that model not what I can't see it hasn't worked because your husband yeah husband but you know the heart supporters know and back on track to will the hearts where and will the house should be than the other top league and all credit to the people it's than that but they know want to see where they are and to bring in a manager let that this untested at all i'm not seeing the guy in ladue i'm not against them at all I think the house support us with a warranted an experienced man in that position but the current regime doesn't allow for love because a directory football Toby rates not going to work well Jimmy fullerton Chris Boyd Stephen Cragen all question their pointment you've been in this very studio before saying that our pundits that go too far make it too personal I know your head coach Boyd in the program last week what what have you made of the reaction do you think it has been over the top to the right to questionnaire yeah yeah I'm Chris boy hadn't asked has an article in a daily newspaper you know and he's got to a comment on what's happening and him knowing Ian Catherine would be in a coaching course the Salem give his opinion onion cattle shirley was entailed to do that right it was entailed to do that and i think he had a lot a valid point sir chris yeah a lot of the negatives were taken out of it rather than some of the positive notes that he did saying in the actual article which you're always going to do though no I don't think anybody last week denied the ink a thorough on the training ground is good but that's very very small part of the job part of the job BB manager and running the team as being a man manager as Bentley going to that dress from a half Damon such situations oh no in catherine has no experience of doing that that's all cuz Boyd was sin and in quite rightly saw no time will tell if he's got the capabilities to do that you know just because he was young ever Domini of it made a player but really now that lad has never been an association isn't at the moment no luckily enough Craig Levine's acutally was always going to get young Catherine her job there somewhere he worked on the last day and and curvy no beer beg beg influence onion Catherine to be it was a big influence of Robbie Nielsen that's probably a good thing is it not I'm the sinister that's from saying that that's one of the assets of God and the system that girl always be a young manager that Craig legate Craig living can mentor because let's be honest about a few being Scottish football for the last 10 15 year years that hearts team as a carbon copy a the team's a trickle of inside over the years well it's your question are we up the BBC um at the game right but I looked at the Sun might report it says hit and hope long balls launched through ends and some uncompromising tackles we're going to talk with the tackles in a couple minutes actually the brave new revolutionary hearts world of rookie manager in Castle kicked off at I Brooks and saturday and frankly for the most part it felt more like the old Wimbledon crazy gang stale and anything that remotely resembled vision that ate football what does that say to you yeah well I don't think I mean Catherine may be good but I don't think after two DS it would have that much influence in sardis game whatsoever I think maybe just on the day you know hot Rangers were playing well and hearts were having tea to get the ball at the park quickly I don't think for a minute that was he in caturah sitting out to do that inside they do you think you'll get to change the style of play eventually but I don't think it'll be till next season I think it's gonna be very difficult to be able to do it during a season I mean you'll have a good you know obviously the winter break comes at a perfect time for him they'll probably go away I wouldn't imagine they'll get time off with a new manager but wait and see but he'll go in and they'll take him somewhere and you'll want to work on what he wants to work on I'd imagine what you said he said himself from I was at his press conference last Thursday and he said himself that was his message to the players when he first met them the teams in third place at the moment Robbie's just left for the manager of the Month award he was not coming into a situation that required him to reckless it the river the stateĆ­s go up and do things dramatically definitely that would be counterproductive he was coming in to just keep the show moving along taking it too easy in terms of any changes they make tweet one or two things and do one or two things he's wrong way but it's not going to be radically different and this is part of i think the hysteria that has been drawn up by his baby's appointment there was never any suggestion that you catherine was going to come in and manage radically different from any other manager he said it himself you just you just have to do the job the unorthodoxy in his appointment was the fact that he's never played he's 30 and he spent the last sort of 10 years on a pathway to becoming a manager but he's not played the games was a different pathway from normal that's the unorthodox a moment of it not what he was going to do just his journey to get there but I think in terms of math think that's a bit of a fallacy abut this Craig ravine aspect or but I mean he's there as a mentor is there as an influence Robbie Newsome picked the team Robbie nucynta tactics cleared and influence on Robbie so therefore he's got an influence on that but it wasn't telling Robbie what to do and that situation will be the same here and and also about belly-belly shhh you know I'm no saint click leaving picta team huh I don't know that doesn't but can tell you something a few other inner harps games that the lied and it was jut rasta start where they kept running don't in the dugout pieces of paper where information to give the Robin you'll sin and flats not undone fluence from the team was way he's got you got a nympho he's got influence on row because as we've said already he's a mentor for a young coach during young head coach is making his way in the game and he would obviously therefore have an input on decisions but ultimately there were Robbie's decisions I mean they're definitely this is just from from from the same way that you know anything from from speaking to people in the game from from understanding the situation I mean there was definitely there is no question that robbery had the final say on transfers absolutely no question on that and he had the final say on team selection and team tactics but was not not foreign to what Craig says when he first took over that day that he was in charge he bring in players oh he's in charge of the recruitment process up to the point where the decision is made of whether whether player concerns I Robbie's just said yes well not not necessarily more necessarily ok so what Craig looks for the players and presents them to Robbie if Robbie doesn't want on me along along with Tracy John Murray who's the heads the chief scout there so they were doing money i well know what's no I mean I've got to see that the hearts things working out of there you know I'm obviously heavily involved because you know it was at hearts a long time and it's a special place to be you know but when I read things and listen to people seeing things i'm correct you know that you don't know wait Richard yeah and well we have last week we have a difference of opinion on that seeing what well Tom English was on about the the fact that Ian Catherine had an influence from the first team at Newcastle which as far as Amelie to believe in over to be done or either the video analysis said nothing wrong with that I'm no snob a belly belly he caused the Newcastle frosting I mean he took construction from rafa benitez you to get rid start you hey never prepared the team for a game I'm not saying you prepared the team but he courts players on the training field yeah oh yeah do that so that's who's not just the video analysis thing was he not the assistant at Valencia was it was easy as I said use the system use the heaviest the assistant manager valencia and the assistant manager you a fee and I don't know where they wear them beforehand as well yeah I thought know where this file she has come from one on the Newcastle because you've said he's an hour and I know video analyst you have always said the scene you hang with obvious beacons we had a game as well it has that skill set but there is no question and you've just a griever there there's no question he was working with the first-team players on the training ground every day I'm not seeing effective tactics that's the manager's job I'm not seeing you to save you how they were going to do things but he worked with the first-team players every day listen handle under here ever go in Catherine Catherine got the job now and and and it stands or falls by the results that I was gay yeah I was just explaining to you how I think this is the one sale you know you don't think that you what do you think Craig does like I think as I said he's that he's a mentor he's an emphasis the director of football he's running the football department of course he has an influence and things I think we're agreeing these and influence and things i'm not sure you sing to me that he makes all the decisions and the head coaches just sits here and says yes is that what you're saying I'm saying I'm saying nothing i'm saying he's an influence and i'm not saying that he's an influence in all aspects of the course play Robin you'll select a team yeah but as many teams with it going to part with leagues okey let's talk let's talk with the style of play richer because you would look today at the footage from the game a few challenges that a lot of range of fans have been telling us upset them on saturday yeah when I wasn't at the game so I don't know about the the match report reference but there's certainly two isolated incidents i think it was a gym on auntie holiday seem to catch Andy Hardy after a passing the boys he likes him to carry through and they certainly seem to be a kick-out from i think it was rossi or inviting mckay after the towards had come together off the off the pitch and relying on the ground so certainly obviously a couple of incidents I mean they happen in games I don't know if the inference is that hearts were playing a certain way but there certainly was those two incidents in the match how much do you believe mark Warburton needed the wins against Aberdeen and hearts yeah I think he dead I mean there was an element of pressure growing after the losing it tynecastle and putting in the level of performance that Rangers did do that demon himself after the game it wasn't a good enough performance at Tynecastle I think Rangers a waveform particularly against the Aberdeen hearts will concern them and but you have to see that Rangers of Tunder fortunes around in these last two games against Aberdeen in hearts they've been very impressive I didn't see the 19 minutes on Saturday but I'm led to believe that's probably Rangers best performance of the season certainly key individuals had to had a very good game I think its pressure was building on him because not because Rangers fans expected to be challenging for the tie toward what they any Rangers fan did expect that but I think they expected the team to show signs of development and progress from last season and that stole a bit it would appear slaw he's phoned again a way to win matches and that's what he has to do I still don't think there's a there's a huge room for a Ferrara and needs to finish second it's going to be at eight challenge without building in hearts and one thing the three of them share is that the strong at home and are not so convincing away from home and that's something that all three managers will want to address I don't think they'll be a huge scope for him to do things in January but it's just got to keep winning football matches he's got to get Rangers to a point with a second in the league that sees target for this season and that's what's been said to I think you've got to give my Walkman about credit for saturday because when the plate at Tynecastle the other week there they got a real doing and the way they played that game the tippy tappy football from the back that was easy for hearts to stop he's changed when sobbing no i didn't think that Mark would have changed it because I think he's got a football philosophy they changed it and it went a wee bit more direct and if they did that I think castle had been a different game I thought I think I'm clear that i think i think that's from the last 15 minutes of that game i think we're gonna come on yeah I think that's okay I think that's a major influence on how we did play on because there was also an element of that thing against Aberdeen as well whether they were prepared to go along at points in that game so i think you're right i think he has a change things up a little bit from from he's still playing this information to an extent and the same players and positions you would expect them to be in but there has been a willingness i think to go a little bit longer from the back at points to deny i just think with that football philosophy when it's not working your job is a professional manager is to change it and it taint castle up the last 15 minutes then change it you know when you're getting press like that you've got no touchie in behind and get the other team by can get them Tubman so you can squeeze a game up a wee bit now I think cansada they did that a lot look more you know in it what for them and I'll credit to them I you know he got a lot of stake after the game at tin castle I think Ansari assured he's got a wee bit something a bill just finally on the debate on referees gym in Edinburgh you can't have it both ways he's saying either that effort is dishonest or he is not they cannot elude to dishonesty and say they're not accusing that f3 of dishonesty anyway if the goal of being given it could have changed the game says Jimmy range it would probably a 151 according to mls face you're not saying it's dishonest it you are seeing it's human nature to if there's pressure on you a certain grown to make big decisions and also as Charlie was seeing they're saying that I'm not saying that you know see he's an eggshell figueira are you know playing but you're you wanted belly but you're also seeing are you agreeing with what chawla lecture was seeing in the gas to join beaten that in the back of his mind would have been Jimmy Walker from the first day of the season when he was making that decision was that not the case yeah I don't know about that i think you know you've just got to say that he thought Jimmy dived you know I whether it was in the back is my normally he could tell you that but he got it wrong Emily you know he's entailed to get things wrong and he got that one wrong tomorrow night in sports and we'll have premise of action for you Celtic other gains Hamilton hockey's in Aberdeen at home to your side mother whale skort it's a tough game in prostate the meeting today the dawn's will be at full strength lovely that's great to know um by all accounts obviously they've had a lot of games as well so hopefully that will take its toll I think this is probably gonna be their fourth game within the last sort of ten days but if they've got a full-strength steam that they're always a tough team to play in tough place to go but they've always been good matches in recent years you know mother will Aberdeen so hopefully it will be another good one tomorrow night and hopefully we can walk away with a point at the moment from what you've seen who who's a second best well we haven't played a bit in yet so this is a catch-up as we play them a couple of times down in the next couple of weeks obviously hearts have been you know they're beating us twice this year tying castles never a good place for us to go they play a certain way they've been you know very good by all accounts this year you'd still expect Rangers to finish second and and rightly so you know with a budget that they have within the league the outright second budget you know best you know second best in the league they should finish second and things are starting to come together for them now and you would have to say that you know they're clear favorites for that but it's been topsy-turvy you know there's been a couple of leagues this year obviously we've got Celtic outright without you know with you know on their own and then we've got that that middle one with the you know Aberdeen hearts and Rangers all trying to push a second and then there's then there's the rest I mean don't get me wrong st. johnston there are they're about as well just behind them but everyone else is looking at them to you know try and catch as the team to catch but look it's going to come down to a bit of consistency within you know the teams that can do that it's as simple as that they can get a couple of wins on the board then they could you know certainly fill out the table what about the Celtic akis game as a player right now can you look forward to a trip the Celtic Park in recent times for us probably not and I think everyone's looking at that now especially the other six or seven teams gone well that's a home win hopefully and it's a chance to try and bridge the gap between you know wasn't Hamilton I think any time I think if you're looking at it from last week when we go to up teams are going that on know you've got to be kidding me on how are they beating Celtic you know and and then obviously when the result comes in i think there would have been a few fist pumps you know within the the rest of the league which is you know it's fair enough that that's just the way it is everyone's fighting for their place and I think everyone's just expecting now whenever anyone goes to Celtic it's a gimme for Celtic because I've been playing that good but there's still always a chance you know if you go there with a right attitude and you know they might have an off day um you know you're always well within you you know your chance like like we were last week but obviously in the end their quality took you know stole in the end and it was a fantastic you know finished from from roguish to be is in the end of the day was it last season that Hamilton went to Parker than what was that last season before she's under under Neil yeah yeah you know sort so it can happen but yeah let's go get to see can happen at the moment because Celtic Sea sweeping over and before them I'm really and so head over the peso nails very much the same a couple of star signings the play look at different say don't yeah there are a lot more direct to start where you know run each team's pass the ball but the past it back half the time but endings teams pass the ball forward you know really yeah the only problem I can see come in for Celtic is that I found certain their lammle Griffis having scored 40 goals last season and I think he's scored other as good as many as they're barely this season bass played half the games you know that that is going to become a wee problem no Brendan's and that stronger position there'll be a handle LA but as a problem I mean League refers the other night against partake was outstanding and he scored a goal in mid one but t I can't see anybody getting anywhere me alone and go be very difficult Hamill I mean talking talk we've talked a bit about the gap at the top but I mean I think there was only three points separating the bottom a seven sides at the weekend hikes no four points from from Inverness at bottom to Kilmarnock in a fith effect if that's what the bottom and it took harmonic does that effectively mean Scott all the teams in that range there at in a relegation battle the moment you think it's going to be that course all the way through this season well we certainly hope not for us we're hoping we can you know pull away from that but as is looking at the moment we're in December now and no one's sort of you know made that breakaway so it's certainly looking to be the case and it's just been a case of no team has been able to you know pretty much I think Inverness strong a couple of wins together and seen them from go from bottom into the top six at one point in the result down again or on Saturday a bit of an indie dope the results to go a certain way because and you did a few goals swing and in vanessa's favor but they could have won and going from bottom up to sixth yeah just where they did do some goal difference to go in their favorite is where it was unlikely but it was still possible for Inverness to move from the bottom to 6 and 11 day it's incredible and I think it's it's going to take its toll as well I think leading into that winter break I think you'd agree with me Billy it's important that you don't want to be that side lagging on the bottom going into that winter break you want to be somewhere at a decent level going into that win a break with the right mentality because going into that winter break being bottom is never going to be nice however that may well be that's so little between the teams and that bought Amelia the listener here you're really anybody cuz strength she victories together might not get relegated you know it's his tight is up but I mean looking at from those side at the moment I couldn't call who's going to be the ones that finished bottom there and then once it finished second bottom as well I've got a problem because it's how they're going to be absorbed and Ian ate it yeah and that's a very very difficult game could well go down to the split you know it could well be that that it's that type that all teams are still well within it well that's exciting stocks you see shelter are running away with in at the top all the action from the football on sports own tomorrow night from half past six the Scottish football podcast from BB seriously point that's it thanks unless thing don't forget you can receive all the latest sports news and our daily bulletins on radio scotland and at our website BBC dakota UK / sportscotland

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